Putin joins the nut roots
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the United States of orchestrating the conflict in Georgia to benefit one of its presidential election candidates.This nutty suggestion was first put forward by a far left writer in the left wing Huffington Post. Ever since the Russian conspiracy buffs have clutched it to their bosom. I think it is a classic but of old style KGB disinformation.In an exclusive interview with CNN's Matthew Chance in the Black Sea city of Sochi Thursday, Putin said the U.S. had encouraged Georgia to attack the autonomous region of South Ossetia.
Putin told CNN his defense officials had told him it was done to benefit a presidential candidate -- Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama are competing to succeed George W. Bush -- although he presented no evidence to back it up.
U.S. State Department deputy spokesman Robert Wood labeled Putin's statement "ludicrous."
"Russia is responsible for the crisis," Wood said at his off-camera meeting with reporters in Washington on Thursday.
"For the Russians to say they are not responsible for what happened in Georgia is ludicrous... Russia is to blame for this crisis and the world is responding to what Russia has done."
When told that many diplomats in the United States and Europe blame Russia for provoking the conflict and for invading Georgia, Putin said Russia had no choice but to invade Georgia after dozens of its peacekeepers in South Ossetia were killed. He told Chance it was to avert a human calamity. iReport.com: First-person accounts from the center of the conflict
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But just to follow the logic of Putin statement is to expose how absurd it is. Someone in the US government would have had to order a division or more of Russian troops to the border with Georgia so they would be in place for an event that never happened.
They would have to have convinced the Russians that a "genocide" was taking place despite the fact it was supposedly happening only a few miles from this large force of Russian troops and tanks. Then they would have to fool the old KGB politician Putin into reacting. Does Putin really want the world to think he is that stupid?
What seems clear is that Putin knows he screwed up and is trying some blame shifting to avoid responsibility. He is not very good at it.
Even the Chinese are not buying into the Russian storyline. Did Putin really think China would want to give Tibet or Taiwan a chance to argue South Ossetia as an example?
Update: It appears the Russian "peacekeepers" are failing again according to the UK Times.
It appears the Russians are no better peacekeepers now than they were before the invasion.Russian-backed paramilitaries are “ethnically cleansing” villages on Georgian soil, refugees and officials told The Times yesterday.
South Ossetian militiamen have torched houses, beaten elderly people and even murdered civilians in the lawless buffer zone set up by the Russian Army just north of Gori. The violence, close to the border with the breakaway republic recognised by Russia this week as independent, has prompted a new wave of refugees into Gori, 40 miles north of Tbilisi.
People who had started to return to their villages in the area are now fleeing for a second time, joined by many elderly people who had refused to leave their homes when the Russians invaded two weeks ago.
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BTW, I have again relaxed my policy on insulting remarks in the comment section. Those who confuse insult with logic expose the weakness of their own case.
Now it is obvious, that the hysteric verbal attacks have gone too far, so that even such well trained and experienced ex-KGB high rank officer like Putin (who made a career, working together with Stasi in East-Germany) has gone out with statements, that look like "X-files" or other conspiracy theories.
ReplyDeleteAlso- China has beside the Tibet a "long painful stick, i.e. Taiwan.
You are clueless!
ReplyDeleteDo you live in Russia? I do and know the truth!
From an American in Moscow.
Kyle
Wake up Americans
ReplyDeleteYour country has been overtly and covertly fiddling around in the other countries where you don't belong for decades now, and that is why the world hates you. Make your politicians accountable, hopefully you guys will vote for Obama, but even so make him accountable.
The days of the CIA doing whatever they want in other countries should end. Have you seen Dubai, or China, america isnt #1 anymore so you must convince your politicians to stop acting like they are. I wont even get into the disaster in iraq
Russia is not easy to understand specially for USA people.
ReplyDeleteThey are very proud, suspicious, they prefer to do and not to speak.
But they are convinced on the correctness of the choice they do.
Soviet System is dead long time ago, but Russia is warried to defend his borders and the military influence of USA growing up in many country aroud his territory (Poland, Ucraine, Georgia, etc.) is not a guarantee of security for them, at the countrary.
Russia in Ossezia is convinced to has done the right way, it is not a propaganda it is true.
After Kossovo, Putin warned about other 40 similar situations on the world, and now in Ossezia it is not fear to have a different vision of the problem only because USA decided to have a military partner on Georgia.
Russia do not want to extend his territories, so vaste and rich to be difficult to well controle it and Georgia have nothing of economic interest.
So I think that it is better to discuss in fear mode with Russia about method of his systems, criticize the step they do, but understanding their reasons and not to do a very dangerous "witch hunt" that will only create an imbalance in the fragile European contest.
Russia, like China is a powerfull country in the world, provoke them only it is a serious risk for all the world.
USA have to think seriously about this.
Fastnet
2 Kyle
ReplyDeleteand what's the truth?
Kyle, sorry but I think you are clueless and poisoned by Russian propaganda. Russian mass-media are totally controlled by the Kremlin and they've been whipping up hysteria and hatred in Russia towards Georgians for years, now culminating in the flat-out invasion.
ReplyDeleteSee my blog at http://georgiaoccupied.blogspot.com/ , hope that helps.
Who paid you grant for you to make this fabulous blog, Mr Brewmaster???
ReplyDeleteRegarding Russia propaganda, as you might have heard there are a lot of rich people now in Russia, especially in cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg. Many Russians now has free access to world TV channels, like BBC, CNN, without translation, propaganda, etc.
Not like Tbilisi, who totally blocked all other mass media except for American and Georgian, Russia has not blocked anything and Russians watch Georgian, American and other mass media which they want.
WHo is being hysterical - think about a number of wars in all parts of the world in which USA paricipated (and in fact started) for the last 15 years: Panama, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Serbia, Afghanistan.
Have you talked to Ossetians and Georgians? Have you seen both sides before making your blog?
The Georgian President should have known better before his foray into a patch where Russian passport holders were in majority. THAT IS A FACT. Georgia created the situation. The UK should for once not follow Bush and the neocons like we did in Iraq. McCain now can use the Georgian situation and project himself a strong leader. this is the guy who cannot count how many homes he owns!
ReplyDeleteWe have suffered enough due to the credit-crunch, this mighty country of Bush created through reckless lending to penniless. We will be fools to
follow Bush. Hope Obama wins.
"Russian" propoganda, "American" propoganda... True, they all have their propoganda. It's a normal PR.
ReplyDeleteBut... but... Putin spoke to CNN, which is largely accepted by western naive morons as "objective" and "unbiased". It was a somewhat logical retort to "western" (= American) propoganda. Not the best one, though. Because he targeted PRIMITIVE and linear minds of the american constituents (I don't think the American corps of scientist buy that shit anyway. Neither they buy their "American" politics, though.) Putin tried to address American simpletons and... alas - according to, for example, comments on this blog OVERSHOT their intelligence. It looks like folks didn't get it. "...assembling an army at the border..." The point of his speech is TOTALLY missed.
PS. I personally DON'T LIKE Putin & Co. Voted AGAINST them. But, Russia is also ruled by the mob (democracy with general tolerance toward opinion minorities, plus or minus, you know, pretty much LIKE in the USA. And - yes - I can argue with onyone on that one, if you have brains, imbeciles. Also, I had lived in the USA for years, still have their citizenship (dont' know why, any more, just in "personal case", I guess.) I used to like and respectthem [Americans at large]. Eventually lost both respect and any vestages of "liking". They are ARROGANT, NAIVE, allow mob to vote on serious issues, which the mob have neither knowledge nor mental faculties to comprehend.
And now they are seriously discussing "big politics" here...
Morons - you don't have any clues about what is REALLY going on.
Never trust givernments, morons. Any governments. Freaking little men and women.
I, for once, don't even watch TV. There's nothing there to watch. If I need to watch something, I go ahead and buy a DVD. CNN and a miriad of other websites, mostly NON Russian, by the way, is my ONLY source of information. So, leave the american dude in Moscow alone with his being "poisoned" by Russian propoganda. I hate the very guts of America - it's simple people (not all, of course), not because of their propoganda or lack their of, but because I had personally seen what bullshit their country really is and how their really treat EACH OTHER. Fulbright speech ("Underdogs" et al) just doens hold water. I personally know many Americans who HATE the USA.
ReplyDeleteMcWay was true nutcake. The people I know are quite normal.
Russia is not perfect either, by the way. But - BY FAR - is less arrogant.
That was amazing. EVERYTHING the blog author wrote is untrue and illogical. It's funny to see the the pundtis clenching their fists at Russia, while the vast majority of people who comment see through the shameless hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteIt all matches: dolar going up (from the very bottom reached lately, crisis), McCain gaining popularity.
ReplyDeleteJust take a look at the history, nothing raises up popularity as much as a war does...
But what is the price for going out from the economic crisis? (measured in number of innocent people killed).
So far Poland has already agreed with the installing the missils (something that it first refused). This all makes revenue in the country...
Agree with 't'. Russian peacemakers never did killing civilians. Try to watch any interview of people in South Osetia. It could be useful. And it will be true.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you talking about??!!! All the channels in the US are totally biased. There is no truth in your country americans!!! You are brainwashed. I just read both version of the interview with Putin in Russian and English. I can tell for sure CNN cut more than a half of it. Yes, Putin is a former KGB and a very smart person, he doesn't make unreasonable comments like your dumb president does.
ReplyDeleteYou, brewmaster, have you ever talked to people from Georgia and people of south Osetia, I did and even Georgians blame US in what has happened!
US and EU do not want to see strong Russia. They immediately decided to talk about International law and that Russia doesn't follow it when Russia announced South Osetia an independent State to be. Did US follow INTL law when they did everything to acheive Kosovo independence?? NO, US only play their game that benefits their interests.
Exactly, you americans stop cting like you are a super power!!! you are not!!!!!!!! I hope you are not stupid enough and will elect Obama.
I lived in the US for 5 years and can assure that there is no freedom of word in this country and there is no democracy, even in the elections!!!!!!!!!
Mmm... By the way? Do you have the whole version of the interview? I mean the properly translated one. The one posted on CNN official site has many words thrown out. You even can`t hear the real text (russian) because the "translation" is the way too loud. So the header on CNN says that Putin HAS some FACTS about USA took part in the conflict. But the original russian text (without translation) is about that Russia even doesn't have real proofs but if Russia finds some... from this point the translation of CNN fragment seems to be correct. But this seriously canges the meaning. In foreign diplomacy this kind of translation leads to lack of understanding between the sides.
ReplyDeleteBut here You're discussing this...
I've got the full russian version of the interview (not the CNN cuts). It says much more. And in another words.
Be careful taking translation as an original.
Best regards. Sorry for bad english.
Dear friends, some of you can't even imagine how strong is propaganda in USA now. They form your opinion the way it is required by your administration. You are trying to comment Putin's interview without reading it completely. There are so many things that Chance missed in his review and some of them was even changed. Why do you think he did it?
ReplyDeleteRead the full interview of Vladimir Putin to CNN
ReplyDeleteSorry for the automatic translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.government.ru%2Fcontent%2Fgovernmentactivity%2Fmainnews%2Farchive%2F2008%2F08%2F28%2F582087.htm&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en
In period of "perestoika" I'd read "1984" by George Orwell. I thought then that absurd described in this great book was only possible in SU and I was happy to get ability to read European and American newspapers and watch BBS and CNN. I believed they are free But now I'm seeing in this media sources the same absurd!
ReplyDeleteFor you current situation in Georgia started at 2008 August 8 with breaking news "Russian tank in Georgia". You know nothing about long history of ossetian nation. You know nothing about black bolshevist period when Ossetia was revengefully divided by Stalin (he was Georgian born in Gori) into two parts – SO as part of Georgia and North Osstia as a part of Russian Federation. You know nothing that 17 years after Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 SO people (you prefer to call them "separatists", but they are nation really) have never been recognizing themselves as a part of Georgia. Most of them have Russian citizenship and there is no politics here (for example because of economical and social reasons many-many Georgian people had got Russian citizenship in this period too).
In CNN Mr. Saakashvili who started killing of hundreds ossetians at August 7 looks like best friend of western democracy until now. You doesn't understand that if whole nation doesn't want to be part of commonwealth this wish doesn't depend on form (democracy, monarchy or something else) of this commonwealth. And Mr. Saakashvili's attempt of using military force to make ossetian "loyal" to Tbilisi just means that there is no democracy in Georgia. Is Mr.Saakashvili your friend? Shame on you!
Why these innocent victims of Mr.Saakshvili weren't breaking news for CNN at August 7? So, hundreds killed ossetins at August 7 are not important (really no one word about this) but "Russian tank in Georgia" at August 8 is really breaking news for CNN? I don't believe to CNN since that date.
For me it was clear since begin that Russian military forces will never occupy Georgia. It was operation to protect Russian citizens living in SO again Mr.Saakashvili mad attack. It wasn't operation again Georgia or Georgian people. Russian and Georgian and Ossetian nation were close for a long time and I believe and very hope we will be friends later.
Yes Russian military forces bombed military targets on all Georgian territory, but what should they do? It was really fastest way to stop Mr.Saakashvili's aggression. Or you think they should stop on Tshinvali suburb and let Mr.Saakashvili unleash local war? I'm sure now we would get thousands killed in this case. And I'm very-very sad about innocent victims in Georgia but only Mr. Saakashvili's mad attack is real reason for this tragedy.
Fortunately not all west media sources looks like CNN. Try to read this article http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/georgians-stuck-in-limbo-begin-to-lash-out-at-saakashvili-911778.html
And read "1984" by George Orwell. Some fragment of this book looks very up-to-date.
Dear Amarican friends!
ReplyDeleteYou have lived in free country over 200 hundred years. And due to it, there many different opinions and freedom speech. Although, all the media over the world is some how "biased" (depends on owner), you probably do not have seen the real biased media, which is now perhaps only in North-Korea and was at the Soviet Union, when the media was under the state control.
In the Soviet Union it was actually under KGB control. I have been under the investigation of the KGB, because I read and spread Russian dissident books. So, I can say, that I know their methods.
Why that comments of Putin is so surprising; this is the modus operandi for USA from the 18th century (dogma MONROE).Provocation first and after crying fool. Remember how Vietnam War starts. Remember the suppose bombing of the naval fleet in st Diego by Cubans. Remember the daughter of the Kuwait ambassador posse like Iraqi and so on. Remember Kosovo independence keep in mind the crisis with Cuba .Don’t forget it was about missiles in Turkey by US. Don’t forget the Korean Air flight, and the black boxes And if you want to be informed verify the facts to who territory is Crimea ,and how become part of the Ukraine .That facts is part of USA foreign policy .Aim not communist if you want to know, but aim not blind neither And for the comments that helping John McCain, remember the coincidence of the release of the Colombian hostage when John was visiting ………
ReplyDeleteTHEO
So, Russia is a bully because it flexes it muscle at Georgia, which by the way is on its border...
ReplyDeleteI wonder how America would respond if Mexico decided to invade let’s see... Guatemala?
What right does America have to even question Russia’s motives; after all they were Americas allies in the so called war on terrorism... which in my opinion is nothing more than Americas excuse to do a little bulling of their own...
Don’t get me wrong I believe with all my heart and soul that Sadam Hussein was extremely evil and had what was coming to him... and so do most Russians by the way.
It just wasn’t Americas place to make it happen. Eventually it would have taken place within, that’s evident from the current situation in Iraq.
And just what exactly did Sadam or Iraq for that matter have to do with 9-11? Absolutely nothing, not a single thing, back to Russia and the commonwealth states...
Russia has wealth and natural resources that they want to exercise their right to disperse freely on the world market...
And the CIS countries that voluntarily split from them in the early to mid 90’s want to extort them for trying to do the free trade thing?
When they themselves are barely able to survive and surely would have collapsed and happily gone back to the motherland if not for the selfish motivations of American promises and politics...
Think about it... what exactly is America’s motivation?
A cold war with Russia would benefit only America right now, especially with the upcoming elections, not Russia they have no secrets to hide anymore... that laundry has already been aired.
And what American party would benefit the most?
The one currently in power, the Republicans... and they have the power to perpetuate this, and the power to stop it... call off the dogs Bush... its a no win situation.
I saw all the interview with Mr. Putin. All I can say that CNN didn't show it and just retold it in a wrong way. US citizens not acustomed to see and read truth? Only sweety comments and appropriate retelling...
ReplyDeleteLooks like CNN is afraid to show interview itself.
US officials don't like to hear and guess that other nations has their own rights to be alive as Russians do.
I saw all the interview with Mr. Putin. All I can say that CNN didn't show it and just retold it in a wrong way. US citizens not acustomed to see and read truth? Only sweety comments and appropriate retelling...
ReplyDeleteLooks like CNN is afraid to show interview itself.
US officials don't like to hear and guess that other nations has their own rights to be alive as Russians do.
I see read and analyze all the information sources all over the world and especially western ones and georgian also and all i can say that US is agressor with old style thinking. All the evil US thought they fought figting with USSR is really inside of US politic. Do your own therapy when you blame that someone is evil empire and it will save the world.
ReplyDeleteGenerally, the sense, with which the whole thing is perceived in the former Russian Empire is -- TRAGEDY. Most Russians don't hate Georgians, most Georgians don't hate Russians. Now, there are surely some people on both sides who do… It is, alas, understandable. I think that most Osetians (the Russian ones including) now do hate ALL Georgians. It’s also understandable. But it’s an INTRA-FAMILY business. The people will grow to accept the situation, reconcile somehow for the greater good, and move on with their lives TOGETHER. Despite some jackals-politicians trying to benefit by “demonstrating love and compassion” to their prospective “powerful sugar-daddies”, giving them, in reality, no love, but cheap bad sex with no compassion. Those “sugar-daddies” are not helping the family. Just like cops in America, in most cases, are not helping families with their “domestic violence” arrests, no matter how good their intentions might be.
ReplyDeleteThe Chechnya situation was an annoyance for all Russians and 99% of the Chechens. Sometimes criminal or unrealistically over-ambitious people go into politics and tragedies ensue. When the Soviet Union collapsed (because most of the Soviet people had already grown to hate it and were wanting to change “the king” anyway), many people had to sell personal belongings to buy some food. They couldn’t think of the big politics. And some political jackals took advantage of the situation. And should some peoples decide to go on their own – it’s a family divorce situation, when some parties will apply to the “society at large” for sympathy and support, including some warring tactics. The society-at-large should have exercised compassion to both parties and – importantly – tactfulness, which the US politicians have never done so far, tugging along [at times] their West-European little dependent countries’ politicos.
The US (luckily for the US) has accumulated a huge scientific potential in the 20th century. That still remains the most impressive competitive advantage of the country today. I believe the country should tap into that resource more and come up with better technologies and scientific breakthroughs, helping themselves and the rest of the world. More Americans are going to die should they chose to keep policing the world the way they have been to date. They really are becoming an annoyance. Peoples start feeling like changing “that king”, too.
Shame again. The USA media fools its citizens.. so obvious..the interview is really shortened, no, the interview was only being mentioned about..with usual lies, stupid comments and guesses... shame..
ReplyDeletethey either can not hear or understand..
Shame again. The USA media fools its citizens.. so obvious..the interview is really shortened, no, the interview was only being mentioned about..with usual lies, stupid comments and guesses... shame..
ReplyDeletethey either can not hear or understand..